Ocarina

topic posted Mon, April 18, 2005 - 11:06 AM by  Uilliam
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Hi, I'm trying to get into learning how to play an instrument and my understanding is the ocarina is a good one to start with.

Does anyone here know if the ocarina has been used in the music of the differant Celtic countries?

I'm interested in creating a character from one of these regions for an SCA persona, learn some more about my ancestors and to play music as well. The little I am able to play I find very relaxing.

Thanks for your time,

Uilliam
posted by:
Uilliam
New York
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  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Ocarina

    Thu, April 21, 2005 - 12:15 AM
    These were native to the cultures in Central and South America in a society so distinct from other world cultures of the time, although similar in that music had grown from both physical and ritual roots.

    Of the Maya, Aztec and Inca peoples it was the Aztecs who brought the ocarina to Europe-though it is unlikely the Aztecs posessed any of the superior Mayan type.

    Cortes sent a large party of Aztec dancers and musicians to emperor Charles V to demonstrate the nature of Charles' new subjects from the New World.

    In 1527 their performance for the court at Valladolid astounded everyone- even more than the vast collection of looted treasure that had so impressed Albrect Durer when it was exhibited in Brussels seven years earlier.

    The Aztec singing was in perfect harmony ,the huge flowing ensemble of dancers moved in virtually absolute synchronicity. The Aztec musicians had ocarinas with them -descendants of fippled pottery whistles and vessel instruments with mouthpieces which had been developed millenia previously by the "alto-plano bird dancers"

    They became famous and were sent to perform a series of exhibitions all around Europe and were seen in Rome by Clement VII.

    One scenario runs that a baker in a noble Roman household was so impressed by the sound and sight of the Aztec clay instrument,that he immediately made some claõy whistles of his own-it was common at the time to utilise the hot ashes of the bakers' ovens to make low fired pottery items-mostly toys-and the novelty swept into fashion among bakers all over Europe and were an amusing new toy -the word 'ocarine' means 'little goose' in the Italian Emilian dialect

    These sweet sounding toys sold at Markets and Fayres spreading to other makers throughout Europe.

    They remained a popular toy for more than 340 years until 17 year old Musician-Baker *Guiseppe Donati* of Budrio (near Bologna) Italy, transformed them from a toy which only played a few notes,into a real instrument which could play more than an octave accurately: Donati originated the first pitched diatonic scale ocarinas.

    Other makers too,developed consorts of ocarinas in eleven different sizes for group and solo concert performance.Various tutors were published and the ocarina became an 'instrument of the people'.

    In 1870 two ocarina ex- apprentices, ex-members of the Budrio ocarina ensemble, Ercole and Alberto Mezzetti began to make ocarinas in Paris.Their ocarinas won many important prizes in Paris and Edinburgh and other exhibitions.

    Another maker was Luigi Silvestri. from Camisano Vicentinowho invented the double ocarina, and his ocarinas were sold alîl over the world.

    For the full text go here: www.songbirdocarina.com/history2.html
    • Re: Ocarina

      Thu, April 21, 2005 - 12:39 PM
      Hmmm, thats interesting....might make sense to come up with another persona if its that unlikely for a celt to get a hold of an ocarina. Hmmmm weren't ocarina also asian in origin though? Its interesting to think both east and west would have such a thing but Europe in the middle hadn't anything like an ocarina.

      Thank you for taking the time to answer my question
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        Re: Ocarina

        Fri, April 22, 2005 - 2:13 PM
        The celts used simple flageolettes ... Whistles or flutes. That's why you see so many tin whistle players with Irish groups. Those types of instruments were relatively inexpensive. It is easy to play simple melodies on ... but requires a great deal of skill to include the ornamentation and speed that many Irish folk musicians have adapted.

        The only other wind instruments used by the Celts were the pipes (that I know of and they can get pricey) The Irish had two chantered War pipes and the Scotts the three. Though both were use when going into battle and in both countries.
        I work at a music store in Folsom. If you need me to look something up for you, availability and price-wise, just write me.

        Personally, I have been taking tin whistle lessons with Liam Irish in the Sacto area. Perhaps there is someone in your area who can get you on your way. Are you in Fresno with the rest of Kennoch's?
        • Re: Ocarina

          Fri, April 22, 2005 - 6:41 PM
          Thanks St. C., I might take you up on the offer to look some things up for me. My plan was to start small with the ocarina then move up to the tin whistle and I'm sure you'll find it amusing I had hopes some day of playing the Uilleann pipes....oh not for a profession mind....but after hearing Seamus Ennis play I was really quite overwhelmed. Call it a long term goal.

          Sadly, I don't live anywhere near Fresno...I am in Upstate New York. It must be a grand group you guys have there if the folks I've already met in Kennoch's are representative of the membership. There is a place to learn but sadly I haven't as much time for formal musical training as I'd like....I'm pursuing a second degree at the moment.*shrugs and smiles*
          • Re: Ocarina

            Sun, April 24, 2005 - 12:31 PM
            If you're thinking about eventually playing the Uilleann pipes you should probably just start out as close to them as you can. You can buy a low B flat penny-whistle for around fortyfive dollars -- the finger spacing is very similar to a Uilleann chanter.

            Since learning the peculiar ornamentation of Irish music can't be had from printed music I suggest you also add Grey Larsen's book, "The Essential Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistle" www.greylarsen.com/

            The good news about the Uilleann pipes is that there is a movement among pipe makers to make affordable entry sets. You can also build your own. Check out David Daye's "Penny Chanter". polarmet.mps.ohio-state.edu/~bda....html
            Building the "Square Chanter" from that page only requires a drill and a hand saw. I had very good luck building my own set with just hand tools, although I did end up buying a completed Penny Chanter from David. daye1.com/pennychanter.html

            There's a fairly large Piper community in upstate New York as well. www.eastcoastpipers.com/index.html

            For interesting reading, check out listserv.heanet.ie/uilleann.html
            • Re: Ocarina

              Sun, April 24, 2005 - 6:56 PM
              Thanks Steven,

              I guess I was thinking wrong - sounds like it anyway. So no ocarina gotya. I'll have to check out those sites. I didn't know you could make a practice chanter and I wasn't aware there was a piper's group in Upstate New York either.
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    Re: Ocarina

    Tue, January 2, 2007 - 6:14 PM
    If you are still interested in learning the ocarina, I just found a great company online called Mountain Ocarina. They have pretty much everything you would need, including a book with THREE HUNDRED CELTIC SONGS for the ocarina! I just ordered their $20 polycarbonate ocarina because all the sound samples on their site are made with it and they claim it's very difficult to tell apart from their more expensive ocarinas. Go to www.mountainocarinas.com if you're still interested. Maybe when I get mine in the next couple days I'll try to review it for the tribe? :)

    Arnold Kelly
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    Re: Ocarina

    Wed, January 3, 2007 - 7:25 AM
    Sláinte Uilliam,

    A word of caution if you're new to playing an instrument of any kind: many ocarinas, at least the Mountain Ocarino referenced elsewhere, are chromatic (they can be fingered for sharps, flats and "regular" notes). If you buy a C scale ocarina (no sharps/no flats), you'll have to adapt to the keys of D (two sharps), G (one sharp) or A (three sharps) in which most Celtic music is currently performed. I haven't seen many, if any, D ocarinas.

    However, most Celtic music can be played in a diatonic scale (only the straight-up "do-re-mi" stuff) to which most tinwhistle fingering is geared.

    In spite of the fact that I had about four years' piano and trumpet lessons as a kid, I've found that getting back into music as an adult was overly-complicated by the chromatic scale. You can't go too far wrong by starting with a D tinwhistle; you achieve its diatonic scale by lifting one finger at a time, from the bottom up. (The two sharps are "built-in" to the whistles fingering hole sizes). Starter whistles can be had for as little as $12.

    Just me tuppence....

    Eamonn An Chnoic
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      Re: Ocarina

      Wed, January 3, 2007 - 12:12 PM
      You are correct, it is harder to learn to play a chromatic instrument as oppose to one with a diatonic scale. Compare a guitar with an instrument called a strumstick. The guitar is a CHROMATIC instrument and can take MONTHS, if not YEARS, to learn to play properly. The strumstick? They claim you can play music FIVE MINUTES after picking it up because of the DIATONIC scale ("No wrong notes" is their motto).

      As far as the fingering scale on the Mountain Ocarinas goes, since I don't have mine yet I can't verify this, but they claim to have an "intuitive" scale. According to them (they demostrate it on a video on their site) all you have to do to play the scale is start with the right pinky and lift each finger on the right hand...then repeat with the fingers on the left hand, starting at the bottom again. VIOLA! You just played the scales. :)

      I think most adults find it difficult to learn a musical instrument...without A LOT of practice. I think that's the beauty of the ocarina. You can put it in your pocket and take it ANYWHERE. That way you can use all those extra one or two minutes spread out through the day to practice playing. I bet if most people figured up all the times they spent at least 5 minutes waiting around for something, they would discover they have MORE than enough time to learn to play an instrument. :)

      Don't know why I got on this rant and ramble...but I feel better because of it! LOL!

      Arnold
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        Re: Ocarina

        Wed, January 3, 2007 - 1:00 PM
        Strumsticks are an offshoot of mountain dulcimers; both mostly have diatonic fretting (some are sold as chromatic).

        The ones that are advertised as "the tinwhistle of stringed instruments" appealed to me, which is why I'm taking a crack at an MD (after six years or so of TW and bodhrán).

        You betcha; cain't get anywheres wihout a lot of practise. In spite of the diatonic fretting, I'm finding MD is harder than I thought. Although I did get Stephen Foster's "Hard Times" in the first half hour, not in five minutes.
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          Re: Ocarina

          Wed, January 3, 2007 - 1:46 PM
          Well, never said you'd be playing anything SERIOUS in five minutes. ;)

          You probably learn to play something like "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" or some other CHEESY tune. LOL!

          Yeah, the strumsticks are basically a dulcimer you play "on it's side". Has more of a banjo/mandolin sound though, which I really like. If they weren't so gosh-darn expensive, I'd get one in a heartbeat!

          The plan is for me to get a cell phone case and use it to tote my Mountain Ocarina wherever I go. So that way I can annoy the CRAP outta everyone! ROFL! :)

          Arnold
          • Re: Ocarina

            Wed, January 3, 2007 - 8:20 PM
            Hey I like cheese! Cheese is my friend.

            For an instrument where you can play chords - like the harp - diatonic isn't enough. Need to be in a pentatonic scale to get to "no wrong notes". (Unless you're shameless like me and make the old wrong notes into the new right notes...)

            If you want to *really* annoy people, how about putting a a cell phone in the case and using push-to-talk everywhere?

            -- T
            (Diatonic is good - didn't The Who have a song called "Going Modal"?)
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Ocarina

              Thu, January 4, 2007 - 7:37 AM
              I don't have the push-to-talk function, but I do have a bluetooth earpiece. So it looks like I'm talking to myself when I'm on the phone. LOL!

              I always thought the song was "Going MOBILE"?

              Arnold
              • Re: Ocarina

                Thu, January 4, 2007 - 10:02 AM

                > I always thought the song was "Going MOBILE"?

                That's if you want to annoy people with your cell phone.

                When using a diatonic instrument, perhaps your ocarina, you'd be going modal. Maybe annoying isn't the word for it, but it's a way for people to get keyed up...

                -- T
                (as opposed to going postal)
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Ocarina

    Tue, January 9, 2007 - 8:02 AM
    Well, I FINALLY got my Mountain Ocarina (I guess the holidays and the funeral for President Ford slowed down the mail). I haven't played it yet, but even so, I've discovered some interesting things. According to the instructions that come with it, the ocarina can be played in both DIATONIC and CHROMATIC scales. The scale pattern that I described in an earlier post is the one for the DIATONIC scale. The CHROMATIC scale looks more difficult to do. For beginners, they do include a couple of rubber "plugs" that you can use to cover the two holes on the bottom of the ocarina, making it easier to play since you don't have to worry about covering those holes. Now they do include some songs to get you started, however, they are written in musical notation. So if you don't know how to read music, you're going to have a hard time learning to play the songs. The scales included with the instructions do show both the music notes and the fingering on the ocarina, so you should be able to figure it out how to play the songs, if you really want to. I am probably going to break down and order their "how to play" kit, which basically teaches you how to read music. :)

    Now they do offer an online "mentoring" program, called MOM (Mountain Ocarina Mentor). According to the description you can setup lesson plans and provides ways to track your progress and motivates you. You have to register for it, but it's free.

    So I guess now comes the hard part...starting to practice! :)

    Arnold

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